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BDO's Legal Tech Talk / Season 3

Elevating Legal Ops: Strategic Tech Adoption in the Insurance Sector

BDO's Legal Tech Talk · Season 3, Episode 24 · September 24, 2025 · 3,422-word transcript
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Host: Daniel Gold, BDO
Co-host: Eric Derk, BDO
Guest: Derek Mogck, Munich Re America Services

About this episode

Recorded live at the Running Legal Like a Business conference, Daniel Gold and Eric Derk talk with Derek Mogck, head of legal operations at Munich Re America Services, who supports a team of about seventy legal professionals. Derek explains how he uses OKRs to align legal work with business strategy, how to get lawyers comfortable being measured, when plans have to change, and how an industry seen as traditional is adopting technology by starting with the business problem.

Key takeaways

Full transcript

Transcript from BDO's published episode, edited for transcription errors. Speaker labels added by Gold Standard Leadership.

Show open

Welcome to BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast.

We're joined by judges and legal professionals to discuss emerging trends, regulatory updates, and the latest headlines. We'll provide tips to help your law firms and legal departments make the most out of legal technology.

I'm Daniel Gold, BDO principal and eDiscovery managed services leader.

And I'm Eric Derk, BDO's managing director of legal operations. Let's get started with this episode's exciting discussion.

Daniel Gold

And welcome back to another special edition of BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast. This is great. We are still here live at running legal like a business here in Las Vegas.

And, Eric, we are now joined with the one and only Derek Mogck. He is with Munich Re America Services, the head of legal operations. Really excited to have you here. Thanks so much for joining us.

Derek Mogck

Thank you.

Daniel Gold

Yeah. Absolutely. So first, why don't we start off nice and easy and just, you know, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what does that mean to be the head of legal operations at Munich Re America Services?

Derek Mogck

Sure. So I support a team of about seventy lawyers and other legal and compliance professionals, and our team or department supports the US property and casualty operations of Munich Re America.

Daniel Gold

One of the interesting things that you had said was is that you're here at this conference, not just to be at this conference, but that you actually called out a session on strategic planning. Correct?

Derek Mogck

Yes.

Daniel Gold

And so what does that mean in the context of legal operations to host a session on strategic planning? What is it that you do that you are able to stand up there and talk to everybody about here's how to plan within a legal department?

Derek Mogck

Connie and Jeff have done for running Connie and Jeff have done for running legal like a business is aligning legal with the business. And so what Elaine Darr of DHL and I shared with the audience is how to develop a business aligned strategic plan. And we took it from the corporate vision, mission, values, initiative, SWOT analysis, and then couple that with what the department has, either if they have vision and mission or if they go straight to a SWOT and then developing strategic initiatives that are quantifiable.

And so you have kind of an OKR or objectives and key results approach so that we're tying the work of the department expressly to how the business talks and what the business needs.

Eric Derk

Yeah. I mean, Daniel's a big OKR fan, so am I. How does the business when you align your legal operations goals to the business, how does the business of the legal operations team respond? You said you support seventy lawyers?

Derek Mogck

Yes. Well, not just lawyers, but about thirty five lawyers in the balance, other professionals.

Eric Derk

This is traditionally a group of folks who are not used to being managed by OKRs.

How do you encourage them and think through, like, pros and cons? And maybe it's not always about benefits, but sometimes it's about, you know, maybe corrective action on not meeting. How do you work with a legal team that traditionally hasn't been geared to think like that?

Derek Mogck

Some of us don't like being measured in the way that sales or marketing might be. And so what Elaine and I shared was here are ways to take the strategic initiatives. So if that's the objective, and then you align those with the key results or what we're gonna do.

So for example, if a team needs a regulatory change management tool, a horizon scanning tool because they need to know what the laws and regulations in the different jurisdictions that they operate in, are they changing? Are they evolving? What's happening?

Could we put a deadline on that? Where okay. If our current tool is gonna sunset in fourth quarter, we should probably map backwards and figure out, hey. We need some viable candidates by q two.

We need to complete the demos by q three. We need to have a recommendation together with either procurement or finance or the business, if appropriate, to the CLO by a certain date. So dates are one way, Eric, to have the measurable quantifiable aspect of the key results for lawyers who aren't used to that, or you can talk about a percentage of process efficiency. Or if your department uses a lot of outside counsel, the spend, contract cycle time.

There are things that are at the fingertips of our peers

But they just may not have had the experience or the tools to make those into OKRs or key results. And so legal operations can help the leadership of the department introduce that concept and then talk the language of the business.

Daniel Gold

I'm gonna have some fun here, Derek. So what our listeners can't see is the second that you said OKRs, my eyes lit up because that's something I talk about all the time at BDO. In fact, actually, Eric just rolled his eyes. And so the reason why I wanna have a little fun with this with you here is because so when I think through objectives and key results and for all of our listeners who haven't heard of OKRs, this has been something that's been around for quite some time.

It was popularized by John Doerr, who used to be at Intel, went over to Google, and, you know, gave this talk when Google was very, very young. And then as a result of Google hearing it, the co owners of Google, it became massive. And Google is who they are today because of objectives and key results. And many other books that are out there today have actually tried to mimic that.

And there's the 4DX. There's the twelve week cycle. A lot of various different approaches, but none of them are as good as the original, which is objective and key results. And when we talk about objective and key result, it's different than KPIs.

KPIs being key performance indicators because KPIs are it's I've got a sales goal to hit, and here's how I'm gonna go ahead and set the sales goal as you said before.

Objectives, I often look at though as being that there is an overall mission statement or overall umbrella goal that the law department, for instance, needs to hit for the year. And then each of the OKRs, the objectives are very lofty.

And then they are going to have the key results based on around how lofty that objective is. When you're talking about, like, regulatory change management tool, is that lofty? I mean, is that as lofty as you can as it could be, or is it maybe the objective is to have a forward leaning legal department that has its eye on driving efficiency by x. Right? And so it's the way they're gonna do go about doing that is having a better contract management tool or a better regulatory change management tool, etcetera.

Derek Mogck

Yes. I don't know if you were sitting in on the session yesterday that Elaine and I shared, but what's interesting about your question is we look at it along a continuum. So when you're focused on the aspirational parts as I'm listening to your question, that's really the potential vision and mission statement and values of the department to define who they are, who we are, and who we want to be for the business. That's where the lofty would come in and it's very helpful and it helps align the legal department with the business again by having the strategic initiatives that are clear.

So those are the objectives. So for example, if there were a company that was in their discount grocery space and they had to expand by acquisition and also building new stores, the cycle, the pace of all the contracts and agreements would be a very important part of that success. So the legal department could look at and see, do we have workflow automation? Do we have CLM or other tools?

And if not, then the objective, for example, could be to speed the cycle time of these agreements.

The key result would be we want to automate a certain percentage, we want to speed it by x number of days or weeks, and then, you know, by when. And so what Elaine and I shared was you can take it from the corporate goal of this expansion to the department initiative. I'll just switch language with you. That's the okay.

We need to accelerate the time. And then we identify a team to execute it. So we give opportunity to people in the department, whether they're informal leaders or high potential people. How do we tap them?

And then are there business partners that we need to join or stakeholders?

And then do what by when? And then the key to help the general counsel, because we're always thinking about how we align our leaders with the business leaders, is then if we follow the process that we shared, you come out with a quarter by quarter ability to report on progress in quantifiable ways, percentages, timeline, dollars, and use a stoplight, red, yellow, green, are we on track? Then they can communicate to their sales peer or the CEO or if it's up to a CLO, here's how we're doing on accelerating the contract. Here's how we are adding value to the business.

Eric Derk

Yeah. You mentioned a interesting phrase there, if we follow the process.

And what happens when something happens to a business or a condition of the business that forces you to shift the process? Because, hey. There's a new thing. We've got to adapt. That process or that project or that program needs to be set aside, so our OKRs need to change.

How do you deal with the ever changing nature of business requires one to adopt?

And I think we sometimes Daniel, not picking on you, but we get set in OKRs, and we almost forget to go back and say, okay.

We remember there are three things that changed, and here's how we dealt with those changes, and here's how we update it. So tell me a little bit about how you incorporate the ever present idea of change into what might look like static means to measure.

Derek Mogck

Yeah. And so this is a really entertaining position to be in kinda it's like an appellate argument where the justices are arguing Yeah. With each other for me about OKRs. So I can see that you guys have had this conversation with us. We have a few debates.

Eric Derk

Just a couple of them.

Daniel Gold

So what I say, Eric, is that, to accommodate the change, and I can't remember which general said this, you might, but, you know, the best laid plans Patton

Eric Derk

Yeah. It was Patton. They don't they don't survive first contact.

Daniel Gold

And that doesn't mean that strategic planning isn't valuable and that in many cases it's going to be, able to be executed on as it was written, but we know that the business is gonna change. We might get a new CEO, we might have an election, we might have a new CLO, there might be something in the economy that changes or our client base or who knows? So to your point, change can happen. And what we would bake into the process that Elaine and I offered is the flexibility to pivot with the business and not view that as failure. Because, again, the only reason the legal department exists is to serve the business, to add value to the business. So if it was one, two, and three in the fourth quarter when we were planning, but by second quarter, it's d, e, and f.

Derek Mogck

An adopt or adopt or die. Yeah. I mean, that's really the way that I look at it as well.

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Eric Derk

You know, the other thing that strikes me about the insurance business in general is traditionally perceived as a very old business, like a banking business.

So you're at this conference, and you're seeing all these really cool innovative technologies, and you've been in a few of them. How do you introduce new tricks to maybe old dogs? How do you introduce new ideas and technologies, innovative ways of working with tools and new processes into somewhat of an antiquated I'm not saying your company is antiquated, but maybe the vertical is perceived as antiquated. How do you how do you get people jazzed about new technology and new ways of thinking?

Derek Mogck

Yeah. So the insurance sector or industry is surprisingly interested in and paying attention to technology. So if you this may be another podcast episode with other guests, but the whole field of InsurTech and how they are incorporating and leveraging cutting edge technology. You have a lot of digital first or AI first insurers.

So as an industry, that's some may resemble that remark, Eric, but not everyone. And so for our department, there are a lot of people who are tech savvy, lawyers and others. So it doesn't fit the mold or the stereotype that you shared. But to bring it back to the first part of your question, when I'm on the exhibit floor, when I see the vendors who I may or may not have spoken with before the conference or generally aware of their products, looking at what our use cases and needs are and not try to find the application of all the tools.

Eric Derk

I'm thinking about my experience with really old carriers, but a lot of people buy technology without thinking through the problem that they're trying to solve first. So when they come, they get sold, they buy something, and then they forget that there's actual practical ways that they need to incorporate and apply the tools. And sometimes that's a hard sell. Right? So how do you think think about process plus technology as equal partners in solving a business problem?

Derek Mogck

So one layer is budget To think about what's possible. And we could recommend something that we think is going to be critical or improve in a material way. So So along the continuum of, can we solve it with an existing tool in our toolbox at work? And there are some great sessions still to come this week about how to use what might already be in your toolbox. So start there or figure out, here's our use case and then build it and talking to your department peers and also the business to say, hey. Here's a tool that we think would help us, whether it's advance the cycle time or to be a better aware of the legal and regulatory change management. So that's the process.

And I also acknowledge what you were talking about, Eric, with the focus on the shiny new object. And for the past three years, if you're not talking about AI, you're perceived as behind the times. And so in insurance, there may be some carriers who are old school and like their spreadsheets and paperwork. But I tell you, there are a lot of people across the industry, some of whom have attended conferences like this, but you could identify probably at every carrier someone who's forward thinking, whether they're a digital leader, transformation leader, claim leader, legal leader. They're looking for ways to integrate the technology to serve their customers. So much like the department wants to serve the business, I know that the industry or the vertical is very much wanting to accelerate that.

Daniel Gold

There's a lot of conferences that you could attend.

Right? And this is not the first time you've been to this one. What is it about what Connie and Jeff have built here at the Running Legal Like a Business conference that attracts you to wanting to come back here and especially in speak here? Yeah.

Derek Mogck

I was grateful for the opportunity that Jeff and Connie gave Elaine and me just to share what we've done in the past and what could help each other. And that ties in, Daniel, I think to one of the key benefits here is there's a growing number of peers in the community across legal ops dot com or running legal like a business. And I've found that the sessions are more impactful and I hear from more of my peers and I'm able to focus on that community.

And there may be other experiences where that isn't always or at least as consistently the case.

Daniel Gold

One last question for you. So, you know, you come here and you accumulate all this great knowledge. Right? And you learn about what some of the providers have as well. That's a really profound gift of knowledge that you accumulate.

When you go back to the office, so to speak, virtual or otherwise, how do you intend on giving that gift back to others to educate them on what you have learned?

Derek Mogck

It's probably gonna be a time delay, Daniel, in the sense that I need to digest like, I've I've received, and now I need to digest and see, okay. This may be applicable to one team or one person to be able to share. Others require a little bit more thought that if I'm going to propose it to the CLO, hey, saw this great thing, I'm going to need some backup or context for that. So the process is digest once you're back to the office, collect some thoughts, and then to be able to share maybe some highlights to test if there's more interest or to drive focus and not from the session that Elena and I did, but for a strategic planning perspective. What are those things, comments, new information that I could contribute and offer for discussion?

Eric Derk

It's funny. We don't really give ourselves a lot of time right now to deliberate and think and process.

We're we're always out there looking for an immediate answer. And so, like, your idea or your thought about how you actually need time to process isn't something that people think about right now. We really think about taking an information, spitting it back out in the most effective way, and that's what AI is trying to do. So what you've just said is, like, if people are out there listening to this, I think it's a really cool idea. Like, you just received a whole bunch of stuff.

Derek Mogck

Let it settle.

Be careful. Be mindful. And then put together your business case or your solution set.

Daniel Gold

Yeah. It's like, I don't know what you like to do, in your off hours, Eric, but I like to run. And so some of the ideas come to me when I'm running. And so whether it'll be this time or not, the reason I share that is I hope to draw connections across multiple sessions that I attended that I may not have made, but it'll come to me Saturday or it'll come to me Sunday.

Derek Mogck

I'm not surprised that that was your answer given your love of OKRs and how you've implemented them. So I'm not surprised to hear that you're very methodical about that, and I agree that taking the time to think is at a premium. It's almost out of scarcity these days.

I believe that's why GCs and CLOs want and appreciate legal operations support because they've got everything coming at them. And if you can be a wise counselor to them and have not take forever, but if you can have that thoughtful response, that's value add.

Daniel Gold

What a great way to close. Derek, it was so nice to have you here. Thank you so much.

Derek Mogck

Thank you.

Show close

Thanks for joining us on BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast.

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Until next time. This has been another episode of BDO's Legal Tech Talk.

Daniel Gold
About your host

Daniel Gold is an attorney and a Principal at BDO USA, where he leads eDiscovery managed services. He hosts BDO's Legal Tech Talk, co-hosts the NeLI Pod and founded Gold Standard Leadership.

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