Strategic Leadership in a Changing World with Kate Barton

I'm delighted to be here, Daniel. Thank you for having me.

I think you nailed it, Daniel. Thank you.

Well, thank you, Daniel. I have really had such a fun time with my career. So I was thirty eight years with I'd like to say I started at age thirteen, but I would be fibbing if I said that. But I started as an intern, worked my way up to partner, and then into different leadership roles and enjoyed it. I ended up in my last role as global vice chair of the tax and law business, and it was really exciting. We have a mandatory retirement age at and I hit that magic number.

And so I took a little bit of a gap year and explored other opportunities. And I thought I was going to do one hundred percent board service. And I got this amazing opportunity where I got to meet the wonderful world of Dentons.

And I went through a long interview process, but it was terrific because I got to meet the people and really learn a lot about the firm through that process. And I really got sold, And I think we both decided it was, going to be a terrific match. And so I'm nine months into my new role and very excited to be at Dentons. One of the reasons that I chose Dentons, and I think Dentons chose me, is we both love to be with the challenger brand. Dentons really stands for doing law differently than the competition.

And so they were looking for this next stage for a leader that could come in. We had two amazing founders that really came up with this great idea to create Dentons, and we're forever grateful. And now this stage of where we are in the journey is really one of globalization.

And I've had a lot of experience in that, and I thought, wow, I think my experience could be very relevant to Dentons, and I only wanna work on things that I can add value, and that makes sense. And from their perspective, again, they wanted somebody who had that experience, and it sort of fits with their Challenger brand, taking the risk, doing something different. I know I've heard from so many people in the industry, they were in shock that a big global law firm, the world's largest law firm, would look for somebody that's sort of a nontraditional pick to lead their great business. And so far, we're having a lot of fun together, and so I think it's a good marriage.

Sure. You know, Daniel, I would say that I've learned a lot through the years through trial and error. And I think one of the things one of my mentors once pointed out to me is the minute you're using your authoritative leadership style, which is telling people what to do and expecting them to follow it, you're losing. And so it really stuck with me, and so I really tried to get people to see the why and use my influence and see if I can bring people along on the journey so that they're making the decision to do what I'm suggesting, but they're part of that decision.

And so they feel very involved. They understand the business case for it, what I'm seeing, very data driven. The more data we show, particularly I'm finding that here with our our great lawyers, they like to look at data and just get convinced. And if I can do that, take the time, you get better answers, and you get more followership.

And so influence is the key. No one likes to be told what to do. The minute you're telling someone what to do, right, it takes your energy away. So the more that you can influence them, you just get better results.

And I always allocate, like, two hours to connect with people that I haven't, send a little note. I also make it sort of my gratitude hour, you know, like, who didn't I thank this week that did something extraordinary that's on my team, or I wanna just send a little note. Somebody needs to pick me up. So I think sometimes if you do put in your calendar a couple of hours to, you know, what client haven't I connected for in a while, who haven't I thanked properly for the week, how can I show my gratitude, to get you into a better weekend mode?

I feel better about my week, and so, you know, just being strategic with your time. Our time is our biggest asset, and sometimes we can just get really beholden to the calendar and let the calendar dictate every second, but, you know, you do need to put strategic time in your calendar to do some of these things and to make sure that you're you're doing both, connecting with clients and thanking team members.

For me, I find that I might forget to do it, and it's just you get so caught up in the crisis of the hour. And, you know, that is certainly happening as I lead this great organization, eighty six countries, one hundred and seventy offices, there is always something going on. So if I don't allocate just a little time to reflect, like I said, who do I wanna connect with, and what have I missed strategically, and then who haven't I thanked, or like I said, maybe somebody who needs a little nice note, a little psychic income pick up, I just might not get to it. And so it's so simple, and when I do that, I just I find a little of that white space helps me be a little more reflective and try to do some of these strategic things that matter so much to the recipient, and I feel better.

I feel better because I hate to be selfish, but it does make me feel better when I do things like that. I really think that now is a critical time where a lot of our clients and companies around the world are looking for lawyers that are really trusted business advisors. And so we're trying to help our whole fleet just stay really current, make sure they have what they need because the demand is really critical. I mean, everyone's trying to figure out what they do with their supply chains, what they do with their people.

There are so many issues as you well know. We won't go through all of them, but we're all dealing with it. And, you know, in a time of enormous change, I think that sometimes where you work can be a grounding place where you know what's expected, and the more that you can communicate how we're handling an issue, the better off you are. So, like, having tight communications, really leaning into that team, I'm blessed to have a great communications team.

It helps really greatly. So I do a lot of listening to the podcast. So every morning I start my day. I usually try to do a twofer.

I'll do my exercise at the same time that I'm catching up, listening to The Economist, you know, a whole bunch of different things that I start my morning off with so that I also am in tune to what's going on so I haven't missed anything. And I think that's a commitment that I was always taught as a young associate to make sure that you're doing your business reading. At the time, that was more popular than a podcast. And thank God we have podcasts and we can be doing our treadmill or whatever it is that we like to do.

And, you know, you get two things done with one activity, which is terrific. So I find that just a great way to stay on top of things.

So I think it's a really interesting time in the world where maybe in my earlier days, would have said harmonization is, the end goal. But, you know, at Dentons, we consider our law firm polycentric. And, you know, what that means is we really don't have any one corporate headquarters. When we're eighty six countries, all the country's laws and regulations matter, and some of them are very different.

And so I'm leaning into the balance right now of what we need to have at, you know, global and what we need to sort of lean in on the local side because, you know, the differences are great, and we need to make sure that we don't over egg to one country's rules and regulations at the expense of other thinking or other laws and regs. Does that make sense? So, you know, we skate that balance, and I think it puts us in good stead. You know, we're redefining what polycentric means right now at Dentons.

We're coming up with Polycentric two point zero. 2.0s seem to be popular right now. But I think there's an aspect right now that every global organization needs.

How do you balance that glocal?

Because maybe, again, in the eighties and the nineties, we thought harmony and having a single standard was the right way to go. I'm not so sure right now that is the way to go.

So conflicts are a really big deal in law firms. They were in an accounting firm as well, but a lot of the accounting firm conflicts were mainly commercial conflicts, m and a deals, and on what side were you going to be getting clearances and waivers, etcetera. So we manage them. I mean, obviously, there were times that everybody would be a bit disappointed we couldn't do something for a client that we would have liked to.

But in a law firm, there's more because we have truly legal bar conflicts. So we have, you know, regulatory conflicts right in the laws that we operate. And, again, being in eighty six countries, it's a pretty complex area. And then we have, obviously, the commercial conflicts as well.

You know, different clients, if you're representing them, they don't want you to represent x y z. So we're navigating them. I think having a really great global conflicts team, like everything, you know, as a CEO, you're only as good as the teams that are around you. And so just having sharp people who can take a look, make sure that we explain.

I think if someone is going to be disappointed and not be able to do work that they would like to, the art of the explanation can't be underestimated. And, you know, understanding the why this happened, maybe what we could do differently, how we could still do the work if we could get a waiver, you know, just spending the time to walk people through because as you can imagine, everybody wants to serve their clients and gets quite cranky if it's not you know, they don't get the outcome that they might like. So I do spend a lot of time as the global CEO. Not a lot, but, you know, just the bigger ones will come my way, and we just have to adjudicate them and be true to our values and make sure we do the right thing.

Right. Daniel, there's so many things and, you know, yet our younger lawyers are clamoring to use tools, and our clients ask about it all the time. I was at a meeting down in Houston, and the global CEO said, what's happening? I wanna make sure that my legal department is cutting edge on the use of AI.

What are you doing in your law firm? You know, so it's not an uncommon question. And I think everything is a balance. First, we want all of our lawyers to play safe.

So we wanna make sure that the tools that we're using are, you know, cyber secure and that we're putting data into places where we can make sure that it's not going everywhere that it shouldn't. And so it's gonna be data secure, and so we've spent a lot of time on that.

We are, you know, democratizing the use of the tools. We're telling our our lawyers that they own the results, so they have to double check it just like if you were working with a staff associate. We want them to take the responsibility of reviewing the work, so, we can't have any hallucinations, if you will, or going up the chain or out to the client that would be not great for our brand and just not acceptable in any way. And so just coming up with the proper safeguards, the proper protocols, but not squelching innovation.

And we do need to be innovative. Our clients expect that. And I do think innovation comes, and it doesn't have to be a younger associate. It really can be anyone who's interested in artificial intelligence, and we're looking to spend more time on popular use cases that we see the use cases being somewhat similar amongst countries.

Like, we used it for x y z aspect in the law, and then we'll put more effort in there. You know, I guess I've learned a lot through the years about I always say I wanna be on the cutting edge of technology, but not the bleeding edge of technology. And, you know, because it can be quite expensive to be too too far in advance. So we wanna get that right, but we also want it to be innovation on a client so that, you know, we actually know what will work and will solve a client critical issue.

So that's kind of what we're up to and many other aspects in the back office as well to get more efficient as you can imagine. But I think it's the way of the future. I think with big technological changes like this, we have to lean into them. You can't lean back and say you're not gonna participate. Think being an ostrich, you know, head in the sand is not a good idea as it relates to AI, particularly generative AI.

So I have, you know, a couple of tools on my machines, if you will, and, again, I'm, like, a once a week person. Like, did I use it? And if not, why not? But I've enjoyed sometimes looking up things, ChatGPT.

You know, just I'm trying to experiment myself. I don't wanna be the antiquated leader who doesn't know the other one, and I don't know if I should mention brands, but, I mean, I've tried a couple of different tools because it just makes sense, and people will rave about one, and I'm like, I'll try that and see if I see a big difference. So I'm a novice. I won't say that I'm, you know, in the advanced club or or what have you, but I have gotten, good output from experimenting and tinkering at my level two.

I think it's both. So, yes, our clients are asking about it. Our clients are expecting it. I think at first, you know, clients were saying don't use it, but a lot of clients now are, are you using it?

How's that reflected in my work? They're more, I think, the clients are moving on the pendulum, and so there's more expectation. But there is no doubt that when I meet with our associates around the world, they are asking to use the tools. They don't wanna be a dinosaur.

They also really do want a lawyer in a different way, Daniel. And so we've talked a lot about the need and the even more enhanced need for emotional quotient and, lawyers that have deep, deep empathy because the machines are gonna do more of the analytical work, but, you know, like doing the research, getting things laid out for you, that will come to you. But then I think the lawyer that is going to win in the future is someone who really can relate well to the client, understands how to explain things simply, you know, complex things simply, can solve problems using all of the research that's maybe done through artificial intelligence and the like, but can pull it together and be very, very pointed and help a client navigate the complex situation, which is using a whole set of the human condition and deep empathy, EQ skills, navigating complex politics, etcetera.

So that's what we need, and we're talking a lot about that. How do we hone in on those skills? Sometimes one of my Mexican colleagues called them soft skills. I'm not sure that's the right term because I sort of feel like they're more integral than a soft skill is sort of like a nice to have to me.

These are must haves, and we're gonna be doing a lot more in terms of training up in this area too. So more to come on this. So there is a big demand by our clients for tech enabled solutions. So, you know, earlier, we mentioned that there are, you know, bodies of laws being enacted even on artificial intelligence.

The EU has come out, you know, twenty seven states, right, or twenty seven countries at once where they're going to adopt rules that govern AI. They have rules that govern, you know, global data and privacy and a whole bunch of other things. Clients love it if you can come with some kind of a tech enabled solution. Maybe you input their data, you can see their landscape, some Power BI, and, like, show them how these rules would impact them, and it leads to more work, and they they want it to be tech enabled.

And honestly, the complexity of some of these situations, you need to have this. So we wanna be able to show the power of our breath. We have thirty five more countries in our firm than the next nearest law firm, which is a huge advantage for us. So if we can bring that power to clients who are maybe thinking, how can I get a handle on this cutting edge issue? And we can bring it through a tech enabled solution, I think that will help us, again, be the firm of choice when they're looking for somebody to help them navigate these complex areas.

I think we talk about this a lot, Daniel, at Dentons. Our clients' expectations, I think, have only risen since the pandemic. I think there's just an expectation of accessibility that it has even gone up another notch, in the last four or five years. And so, you know, helping our lawyers and all of our people deal with that is important so people still stay mentally well and healthy, but at the same time are incredibly responsive.

And so when you think about what the pandemic did, I mean, it made organizations adopt technology, whether it's, you know, Teams or Zoom or, you know, all the other platforms that are out there. You know, companies adopted that and used it in a record amount of speed. What would have taken us probably ten years to get adoption we got done in a matter of months. And so I think we all had that experience, and so that's been amazing.

But I do think the pace of change and the speed of response and you know, still has to be incredibly high quality. And I do think in a global organization, making sure that that our clients feel us the same way regardless of the location to which we're rendering the service. You know, they're expecting the same high quality standards, whether you're getting advice in the US, the UK, or Mauritius, Africa. You know, like, they want that same level of responsiveness.

And so we spend a lot of time talking about what that means to be, you know, a Denton's lawyer and how quickly you have to respond and how you deal with that. So I think that's probably one of the biggest changes. We're always staying abreast of all the law changes, for sure. You know, it's hard to predict.

I mean, in some ways, the US is deregulating and trying to, you know, encourage technology, and they wanna be the crypto capital of the world. So we have a great crypto practice. We have a lot of lawyers that specialize in that all over the world and, very tied up, well coordinated group, if you will, of lawyers who have passion and just a lot of expertise in this area. So we're very careful though.

You have to be. We have a great brand. We wanna make sure that we abide by all the laws, but I think that's where we have our competitive advantage. We know the laws in eighty six countries, and we're continuing to grow our our footprint, and, you know, we've got that sort of figured out.

I mean, I find that so many clients wanna know how we did it in house because they're looking to do it for their business operations, and, you know, everybody's talking about the data fabric and, you know, how do you get organized so that you don't trip a big, you know, fault line and have a big problem.

Yeah. I think that a really great lawyer is a creative problem solver, and we talk a lot about that at Dentons. You know, we're sort of putting pieces of puzzles together, and sometimes they feel like they're three d or very, very complicated puzzles, and so this too, I mean this is where the next evolution is, and we need to be part of that, and I think that the lawyer who's trusted by their client gets what the client's trying to do and can help them get enabled to get there is going to be a sought after lawyer, always doing it with the right ethics and doing it smartly. Those to me are table stakes.

That goes almost without saying, but it's the appropriate level of creativity, and that's what I love about Dentons is there's no shortage here in our law firm for creative lawyers. It is amazing what we have going on. And they have the license. What I love about the entrepreneurial feeling of this firm is they are encouraged and have the license to try new things out and then are not shy about saying, hey, I just did this, it worked out really well, client loved it, really game changing, and then we share it and use it as a best practice so that others can follow it.

So I think lawyers sometimes get mislabeled, Daniel. I think they're very innovative and they can help shape this wonderful world that we live in and make it better. We like to understand business models. We like to lean into the sectors to which we're serving and make sure we truly understand them. We give better advice when we do that. And so the more that we can learn from others and also at the same time, it's a twofer. You know, we're helping our clients, but if we can also make the backbone of Dentons, you know, more efficient and better, that's, you know, that's a wonderful thing.

You know, I think one of the things that was really pivotal through my career is don't underestimate the value you get from what I call reverse mentorship.

So I had a lot of mentors who were mentoring me. They were more senior in the organization. I got a lot of feedback. I quickly, especially when I was trying to make partner, realized the difference between mentors and a sponsor, somebody who would use their political capital to get me promoted.

And so I saw that need and dealt with that and got promoted and what have you, but sometimes that's not obvious. I just wanna make sure that that nugget is out there. But the other thing, you know, that I would say was incredibly valuable is people who report it to me. You know, I always had an environment that they were free to tell me, you know, like, Kate, why don't we try something different?

And one of my favorite pieces of reverse mentorship was I think I was a pretty young manager, and I was into, like, client delight. You know, if the client said we needed you know, I need you to look at this and say, We'll get back to you tomorrow. And so, you know, we got off a conference call. Those were the days where we had, you know, the little round thing on the desk, and we hung up.

And so my senior said to me, you know, Kate, could you try on the next call to ask the client when does he need it? Because maybe he could have waited one more day. We're up to our eyeballs in how much work. And I was like, I know it sounds like such an obvious thing, but I was so grateful.

I was like, oh my gosh. I never really thought about that because I just want this guy to continue to use our firm for services, and so I thought he needed it the next day. Made a huge assumption. So anyway, long story short, I started to do that and we started to breathe a little more.

I was like, oh my god, we can actually still delight the client, but we could have delivered in maybe two days at the time, would have been still extraordinary and keep them with us. So anyway, was one of those things. So I always say, make sure the people that report to you, you ask them for feedback. Because sometimes that's the richest feedback that they can give, because they see things, they hear things that you might not hear, people might not tell you as a leader.

One of the things as a global CEO, I never wanna be like the empress without clothes on, like something's going on that I don't know because people are afraid to come and talk to me. To me, that's a disaster. And so I always want a team that feels comfortable. You know?

Just tell them even if it's not what I wanna hear, I'd rather know it, and then you can deal with it and figure out how you adjust.

I want the legacy at Dentons to make the firm more stronger, make an impact on the globalization efforts so our people are just getting the wonderful experiences of working on global clients, having that cross cultural. I have learned so much as a professional, but even more importantly as a person by working on global matters. You know, I've I've I've done that. I've traveled since, you know, I was in my first year at my previous firm.

I was in Asia working on structures as a very young lawyer in the tax practice. And so I just think that is so much fun and how much you learn. So I wanna make sure our people have the best experience. We do more global work and that the firm continues to thrive and carries on for generations to come.

So we have a lot to do, but we have a very great group of leaders and people. And so I think the future is very bright at Dentons.

Thank you for the invitation, Dan. It was delightful to meet you.