BDO's Legal Tech TalkAI Curiosity at Legal Week
About this episode
Recorded live at Legalweek in New York, Daniel Gold and Jared Crafton talk with Lynn Tubalinal, litigation support director at Dykema, about why AI dominated the conference. Lynn explains why generative AI feels more approachable than TAR, what is holding attorneys back from adopting it, and how she plans to bring what she learned back to her firm. Jared shares how ChatGPT helped him cook dinner from what was in his fridge.
Key takeaways
- AI is not new, but generative AI made it visible to everyone, and Legalweek felt it.
- Generative AI feels easier than TAR because anyone can type a question and get a result.
- Attorneys are still weighing confidentiality, billing and accuracy before adopting it.
- Curiosity drives adoption. People learn by playing with the tools outside work too.
- Conferences matter most when attendees bring what they learned back to their teams.
Full transcript
Transcript from BDO's published episode, edited for transcription errors. Speaker labels added by Gold Standard Leadership.
Welcome to BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast. We're joined by judges and legal professionals to discuss emerging trends, regulatory updates, and the latest headlines.
We'll provide tips to help your law firms and legal departments make the most out of legal technology.
Hi, everyone. I'm Jared Crafton, BDO's forensic technology practice leader.
And I'm Daniel Gold, forensics principal and leader of the eDiscovery managed services practice.
Let's get started with this episode's exciting topic.
Alright. Welcome back to another BDO Legal Tech Talk. We are here again live from New York Legal Week. A very, very special guest with us. Please go ahead and introduce yourself so everyone knows who you are.
Hi. I'm Lynn Tubalinal. I am the director of litigation support at Dykema, and I'm so happy to be here.
That's fantastic. We are very happy to have you here.
Lynn, how many legal weeks were you?
This is my third one.
That's in a row?
Yes. In a row.
Okay. So this is all, like, post pandemic.
Yes.
You've been to every single one. Yeah. But you are not new at all.
I am not new.
To legal technology.
Exactly. I've been around for a while.
So what has inspired you now the last three years to make the trek to legal week?
I think the biggest thing for me is the networking. I'm I'm clearly an extrovert. And so I love talking to people, meeting new people, and kind of sharing ideas and figuring out what everybody else is doing in the rat race of life.
So what's the flavor of this legal week? How's it different? What have you seen so far? We're on day two. What's the vibe?
I'm trying to think how I would describe the vibe of this. You're obviously AI is just everywhere.
It's hard to not, like, avoid it. Obviously, like, I'm trying to get more different content because of what we're doing at Dykema this year. But AI is just gonna be around, and I'm we're gonna have to embrace it.
But AI isn't new. Right? No. And so what's just so interesting about the legal community is that we're new ish to AI.
I mean, it's been around since nineteen fifty six. Right? That's how old AI is. People don't often realize that.
But what's different this year is so last year, you know, GenAI, ChatGPT became a thing that people started talking about. One of the things that Jared and I have been, you know, talking to other guests about was that this year, it's Gen AI, Chat GPT, it's real now. Yeah. It's really real.
And so have you been hearing conversations about, like or even within your own firm about how to maybe incorporate GenAI?
Yeah. I've been trying to listen to what other people are sharing here at LegalWeek this year. Internally, obviously, there's a lot going on, and we have our strategic goals that we need to kind of go through. AI is obviously included in that list, but no real heavy movement.
So I'm here for more information to see what everybody else is doing and how it'll impact the legal field. I think your point and that is something that I've thought about over the years is that, in general, the legal field always is playing catch up. And so they're always slow to adopt. And yeah, I was in a conversation yesterday where, you know, how do we use this tool with GenAI, and how will attorneys adopt it?
And I think these are big considerations because it's the adoption is always slow. Like, they'll ask about it and be like, hey. This is this new big thing. But then never oh, I can't use it.
So it's trying to overcome that hurdle for being a technologist and figuring that out.
Are you being asked by the attorneys that you work with constantly at this point?
Not me directly, but I've had other leaders on IT with me that they've been asked. And so I know it's being talked about, but I don't think it's every attorney. It's, like, the attorneys who like tech stuff and are open to it. You know? I wish it was every attorney. That'd be amazing. But, you know, they're all still trying to get their billable hours in.
So, you know, it's interesting. So, Jared, we've had a bunch of people that have come and speak with us here on the show and otherwise who have been in the legal space like Lynn for, you know, a number of years. They're definitely veterans in the industry. But they've also said, like, second, third, fourth. And I think actually what's interesting and as you're speaking, Lynn, you made me think about this. I think that there's a reason that all of a sudden people have been in the industry for a while, are all showing up to legal week. And the word is that there are more people at this legal week than any other year in its history, and I think there's a natural sense of curiosity.
And I think that's really interesting. So have you been able to unpack some of that curiosity?
You know, we're all in this industry that finally is trying to do something greater than I think anybody has thought of, and that is moving a lot quicker. Right? I remember being back in the day as a paralegal and trying to get people to use, you know, a review tool. And so I feel that that energy as well here now from, like, twenty years ago, you know, as a young paralegal and trying to figure out all these, like, different tools, which, you know, versus me sifting through hard copies and bankers boxes, you know, and trying to figure that all out.
So I think that's that same I'm feeling that same of, hey. This there was a tool that I'd like back in my twenties. I'm feeling that same thing now, and I think that's why everybody's kind of moving towards it. Right?
And and they because you're right. It's a curiosity factor, and they're trying to figure out how we can make this amazing for our industry.
Do we think Legal Week's getting an AI bump?
I think so. I think so. I think somebody typed something into, a good prompt. They figured it out. Yeah.
Lynn, have you met any AI at legal week?
No. I have not.
Are you sure?
Not that I'm aware of. Not that I'm aware of.
Okay. Yeah. Not not sure where of. Right?
Do you know the right questions to ask?
Yeah.
Yeah. Probably not. Yeah.
So what's interesting is that I think that leading up to legal week also is that on LinkedIn, for instance, there was a lot of Dolly animations of people. And I think that that was spreading as a hashtag in addition to, like, hashtag, legal week. And I think what's interesting is that that has also spurred additional curiosity as well. And so I think that we may actually be on the cusp of something different. But here's what I question really like. This feels different than TAR.
Yeah.
Right? Why in your estimation does this feel so much different?
I think because TAR was super complicated at the beginning. Right? And there was it was difficult to explain how to use it. This is, like, very user friendly.
And so I feel like I could get my eight year old to probably figure out AI. Right? I mean, I think that's why. Right?
Anybody in age can use it, and it's just super simple. And and it the magic just happens.
Well, I imagine your eight year old and people in your personal life are asking you about generative AI, and it's coming up in dinner conversation.
No.
No. Really. Well, it's coming up in my house.
In my house too. Yeah.
All kinds of conversations outside of work where, you know, nobody's asking me about TAR or That's true. Any other kind of eDiscovery technology, but generative AI is coming up in conversations. You know? My friends and I use it to prank each other.
Oh my goodness. I'm sure my husband and his friends probably do the same, but it's not we don't really talk about it.
I will tell you that. I actually utilize it to, like I'm like, hey. I've got these ingredients in my refrigerator. Not quite sure what to make. And so it suggested to me a recipe, and it drew a picture of what it should look like if I do it correctly.
Did you do it correctly?
I did. I did. And you know what the thing is? It's delicious. It's delicious. Well, now you gotta tell us a little more.
Yeah. What did you make?
Alright. Fair enough. So I wanted to challenge it, and I said, look. I've got I've got an egg.
Mhmm. I've got tilapia. I've got asparagus, tomatoes, onions, and rice. Make something. Right?
Okay.
And so it suggests that it takes some tomato sauce and some rice and mix it together, you know, make it like a tomato infused rice. Right? So that was the foundational layer. And then I went ahead and I took the onions.
I diced them up. I put it in the skillet with some asparagus, then I put the tilapia in. Right? Just some salt and pepper.
And then the egg, scrambled the egg, a little extra protein, and then put the asparagus in a nice decorative layer on top of the rice. Then I put the tilapia, and then I dressed it with the tomatoes and onions. And I'll tell you what, it was delicious. My family mocked me.
It sounds amazing.
I've got to tell you, I have a picture that our audience cannot see that picture, but I will I will show you the before and after.
Well, your family was right to mock you, but well done, sir.
Thank you. Thank you. I feel like I'm a better chef. Right? Yep.
Because of AI?
Because of AI and I feel like legal professionals can become better legal professionals as a result of the gen AI as well. I think it's where we're going.
I feel like that was your own personal version of Chopped at Home.
A little bit. A little bit. Sometimes I feel like I am gonna get Chopped at home. Yeah. A little bit.
Alright. So you've accumulated all this knowledge. You we still have some time left here, right, throughout the day. It's early in the morning here, legal week, the second full day, right? So when you leave here, how are you gonna go ahead and share all of this knowledge, all this information with members of your firm and also, you know, within the legal community as well?
So in the firm specifically, I have, like, a vision for twenty twenty four, how I want it to look like and how I wanna move forward. So a lot of the information that I've heard and, like, listened to and with the keynote speaker and everything, like, I've taken that, and I'm trying to figure out, formulate how I would fit it into that plan. So I don't know if I told you this, but one of my my word for this year is confidence. And Brian Cranston talked about quiet confidence, which was amazing.
And so I it really resonated with me about how there could be strength in how you, you know, say things and do things and act. And as a leader, that's how I'm trying to formulate our year and for our vision. So that's how I mean, professionally, in terms of, like, personal you know, personally at home or in the industry as a whole. I'm not sure.
Like, just having those conversations with other people and figuring out what's working best for them and to honor them in some way and using their ideas, not stealing them by any means. But, you know, just some of the, you know, you never know what kind of conversations you're gonna have and what kind of ideas you might get. So just keeping those conversations going and hopefully something good comes out of it.
And you're also doing your part here on the podcast to share it. Yeah.
Yeah. Lynn, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you. It was fun.
Thanks for joining us on BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast.
If you're enjoying these podcasts, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe for more episodes.
Head over to www.bdo.com for a list of all of our episodes, transcripts, resources, and how to get in touch with us to continue the conversation.
Until next time, this has been another episode of BDO's Legal Tech Talk.
Daniel Gold is an attorney and a Principal at BDO USA, where he leads eDiscovery managed services. He hosts BDO's Legal Tech Talk, co-hosts the NeLI Pod and founded Gold Standard Leadership.
More about DanielGet the next one in your inbox
Daniel Gold writes weekly on leadership, legal technology and eDiscovery.
Subscribe on Substack