Gold Standard Leadership
BDO's Legal Tech Talk
BDO's Legal Tech Talk / Season 2

AI and Virtual Reality

BDO's Legal Tech Talk · Season 2, Episode 6 · April 5, 2024 · 1,950-word transcript
Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify BDO episode hub
Host: Daniel Gold, BDO
Co-host: Jared Crafton, BDO
Guest: Melissa Heydrich

About this episode

Recorded live at Legalweek in New York, Daniel Gold and Jared Crafton talk with attorney Melissa Heydrich, who leads social media and brand management for Women in eDiscovery, co-writes the ABA Law Practice column Tech from the Trenches and recently founded mData. Melissa explains why communication is the problem legal teams are trying to solve, why she expects people to connect through AI and virtual reality, why companies need policies before employees adopt new tools, and how she will share what she learned through her work on women's heart health.

Key takeaways

Full transcript

Transcript from BDO's published episode, edited for transcription errors. Speaker labels added by Gold Standard Leadership.

Show open

[This transcript is auto-generated]

Welcome to BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast. We're joined by judges and legal professionals to discuss emerging trends, regulatory updates, and the latest headlines.

We'll provide tips to help your law firms and legal departments make the most out of legal technology.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jared Crafton, BDO's forensic technology practice leader.

And I'm Daniel Gold, forensics principal and leader of the eDiscovery managed services practice.

Let's get started with this episode's exciting topic.

Daniel Gold

Welcome back to another BDO Legal Tech Talk. We are live from New York Legal Week. Very excited about this. And we have another very awesome guest here, Jared.

But instead of us doing the introduction, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? Tell us who you are, and I think there is a as part of, like, what you do, there is a there's a good surprise here. So why don't you go ahead and get started? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Melissa Heydrich

Oh, well, thanks. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. My name is Melissa Heydrich. I am an attorney. I'm here this week as the director of social media and brand management for women in eDiscovery. We're supporting a great cause, women's heart health awareness.

I'm also a columnist for the American Bar Association's Law Practice Magazine. My column is Tech from the Trenches, which I share with Eric Mazzoni, who's just a wonderful guy. I also serve as of counsel for Kid Production, which is an oil and gas company based in Texas. I am the co owner with my husband of a quail farm and an exotic animal farm outside of Dallas. And new venture for me, I am the founder of a new company called mData.

Daniel Gold

Is that it? There's nothing else? I am just kidding. That is quite a lot. Thank you for joining us today.

Melissa Heydrich

Oh, thanks for having me.

Daniel Gold

Jared, I'm gonna let you go first here. There is so much to unpack here. So you go first.

Jared Crafton

I mean, you know I wanna start with the quails. Right?

Daniel Gold

Well, go ahead.

Jared Crafton

But I'll start with legal week. So how many legal weeks for you?

Melissa Heydrich

This is my second legal week.

Jared Crafton

Is that two in a row?

Melissa Heydrich

Two in a row.

Jared Crafton

Okay. So how does this year compare to last year so far?

Melissa Heydrich

They've both been so amazing. I've had so much fun. And this one's not over yet. Like, we're halfway through, so I think time will tell.

Daniel Gold

And so what are you here and most interested in seeing or learning or talking about?

Melissa Heydrich

I'm here to learn. I'm here to learn from the sessions. I'm taking in a lot of good information about artificial intelligence. And I'm also here to meet with a few staffing experts about some needs I may have in the future.

Daniel Gold

Okay. That's good.

Jared Crafton

Well, you heard it first on Legal Tech Talk.

Daniel Gold

I mean, that's great. So the information that you're gonna be learning, is it gonna be directly attributable to all facets of your life, excluding the exotic animals and the and the quails, the ABA, women in eDiscovery, the, you know, being a lawyer.

Melissa Heydrich

Well, at my new venture, I'm really hoping to build things that are truly useful to the legal tech community. And to do that, I kinda need to have my finger on the pulse of everybody to understand what they want, what they need, like what those really tricky problems are. And legal week is really the best place to do that. It's such a great opportunity to connect with people who are looking to innovate.

Jared Crafton

And and what do you think some of the problems are that people are trying to solve?

Melissa Heydrich

I think communication is a big problem. We are looking for ways to connect with each other in a digital format that feels more like connecting with each other, like you and I are getting to do right now. Like, ways to get this kind of content to audiences who wanna connect with it in new ways and who wanna embrace all the cool new technology that's coming our way.

Daniel Gold

Well, let's dive into that a little bit. We just walked the exhibit hall downstairs, and it is busy. It is Very, very busy. Really busy.

And I haven't been down there in a couple years, I think. And I was actually shocked at how busy it is. And a lot of buzz down there, a lot of problems, right, people are trying to solve. I think that's generally why people are are walking the exhibit halls.

They're looking at new technology. Everybody's got different things to solve. What are people talking to you about? You know, what are those issues that people are looking to solve this year?

Melissa Heydrich

Let me flip that question around a little bit because I think the more interesting question for me is what problems are people not talking about yet? And what I'm not seeing on the floor is mixed reality, virtual reality, metaverse, web three. Like artificial intelligence is a key. It's crucial to moving all of those frameworks forward. And I think as we build a sustainable and ethical artificial intelligence framework for legal, we need to be thinking about how to apply that to new hardware solutions, new technologies, and new ways that consumers are trying to connect with each other.

Jared Crafton

That's That's really interesting. Do you think that that is the next iteration of all of this?

Melissa Heydrich

I think that's where I wanna spend my time.

Daniel Gold

Is that right? Where do you think people in legal are going to be? Because I've heard some forensic experts talking about collecting data from virtual reality headsets. Do you think that we're on the cusp of that as well?

Melissa Heydrich

I think it's already happening.

Daniel Gold

Interesting.

Melissa Heydrich

Like, I will tell you, I met with my friend Emily, who's the director of charity for women in eDiscovery and virtual reality, to do a quick promo for our cause. So we're already creating data. We're already having meetings. Like and we're not just you know, I spat out a two d video. But we're also it's collecting our biometrics, our irises, our facial expressions. Like, this is data that needs attention now so that we can be prepared. It's kind of inevitable.

And, you know, I think of it in a business context as businesses are probably utilizing some of these technologies. It's a lot to think through from that context. And, you know, I think of attorneys that are probably dealing with these issues as businesses are bringing these technologies into their organizations, there's gonna be a lot of repercussions.

Jared Crafton

This is probably something that you as an attorney need to think through. You need to create policies. Are you dealing with any of that yet? Are people bringing these issues to you?

Melissa Heydrich

Jared, that's exactly right. And it's such another good example of what people are not talking about. Like, if you're a privacy pro, you know you need to be reading the privacy policies for every application that you use in your business. So you're exactly right.

Like, you need a policy in place. You need a good information governance policy, and you really need professionals and consultants who can think about mitigating the risks. Because moving forward is not really optional because, you know, legal is so flexible right now. Everything is pivoting, and it's not an option to not address the privacy concerns that come along with all these new cool technology solutions.

Daniel Gold

Right. So in addition to those policies and those privacy policies, there has to be some sort of consent as well as people start walking around with these augmented reality headsets and they can scan and see the entire office and the people that are working. So it does bring up a lot of interesting conversations that that you are going to be having about consent, about privacy, about being able to collect all that data for e-Discovery purposes. And so that's a sort of a different conversation than generative AI, which seems to be the buzz on on the exhibit hall.

Right? Because you're saying that's something that they're not talking about. Why do you think that it's not being spoken about? Because the more we start talking about it here in the podcast, the more that I start realizing my wheels are spinning that, hey, wait a second.

Melissa Heydrich

You're a hundred percent right.

You know, I think what happened, there's always a hype cycle to follow, and I think people got bored of virtual reality. Hardware needed a chance to catch up with what users wanted. And you have really big hardware players listening to their consumer base, testing constantly, using that data to improve the experience, and people forget that virtual reality is one facet of spatial computing. You have augmented reality, like pass through is a fantastic feature where you put on a headset or maybe a set of glasses, and you are seeing an overlay, if you will, to use an e-Discovery term, of some virtual content. Hardware is adjusting to address exactly the kind of concerns you just raised.

Jared Crafton

Very interesting. So you're gonna walk away, hopefully, getting all this, like, great knowledge from down the exhibit hall as well as in all the sessions. What is your plan after you leave here from Legal Week to be able to share all this great information that you accumulated here with everybody else for the betterment of whether it's as, you know, your day job as an attorney or as women in eDiscovery, etcetera. How are you gonna share all this information?

Melissa Heydrich

Well, I have a great venue because I get to play social media with so many chapters of women in eDiscovery all over the globe. I'm really looking to empower all of the chapters to help us raise awareness about women's heart health issues, which are the number one killer of women, heart disease. I don't know if you know this. I wanna empower everyone to like, we think about this for our dads, for our brothers.

We need to be thinking about our moms, our aunts, and our sisters, and raising awareness about what they can do to recognize signs of heart attacks and how choices and mindful living can really help them to overcome a lot of big risk factors. I'm also excited to share the journey of my new venture with anybody who wants to share it by visiting m data dot com, m m data dot com. Come check me out. It's early days, but if you want updates, you can sign up for them.

And I am determined to partners with some of the best minds in the eDiscovery industry to build really cool things together. So that's what I'm hoping to take home with me.

Daniel Gold

That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us here. We really appreciate having you on the show, and we hope you get everything out of this week that you're hoping for. And kudos to you for being able to socialize such an important cause.

Melissa Heydrich

Oh, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you, guys.

Show close

Thanks for joining us on BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast.

If you're enjoying these podcasts, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe for more episodes.

Head over to www.bdo.com for a list of all of our episodes, transcripts, resources, and how to get in touch with us to continue the conversation.

Until next time, this has been another episode of BDO's Legal Tech Talk.

Daniel Gold
About your host

Daniel Gold is an attorney and a Principal at BDO USA, where he leads eDiscovery managed services. He hosts BDO's Legal Tech Talk, co-hosts the NeLI Pod and founded Gold Standard Leadership.

More about Daniel

Get the next one in your inbox

Daniel Gold writes weekly on leadership, legal technology and eDiscovery.

Subscribe on Substack