Tech Transformations in Law

So happy to be back with you guys today.

So I have been with Dykema for almost three years at this point. I am the director of litigation support, so I manage the team that basically consults on all our eDiscovery matters and requests that come in. I'm loving it here. I have been in the legal industry for a very long time.

I was writing my bio, and it was over two decades, which is just kind of crazy to me at this point. Started off as a legal assistant, paralegal, and then found a review platform one day and said, oh, you know what? This is where the industry is going, and I need to make sure that I use my technical skills and know how some way outside of just, you know, being a paralegal and which is also a very important job, but that was my career path and never looked back. At one point, I decided law school was the answer so that I could use my technical knowledge to speak with other attorneys, and, here we are.

That got me to, Dykema three years ago.

I mean, so it's slow going. Right? The just what the progression has been, at least from my perspective. More recently, it's been a lot quicker to adopt, you know, kind of review platforms.

Like Daniel said at the beginning, some of the AI capabilities and functionality that we're seeing now. But, really, for me, the, like, review platforms, the inception of that, and just figuring out and navigating through the waters, because I was there in the early days when, it was attorneys and engineers kind of sitting in a room and trying to figure out how, to make a tool, and they were not all pretty. And then just a lot of it too is just the rise of legal project management as, you know, a tool to enable teams to help figure out what they need to do and how they manage their workflows.

I think for me, just because this is near and dear to my heart is just, like, trial support software, the evolution of that. I mean, back in the day, just sitting in a courtroom as a paralegal with an Elmo and trying to figure out how to use that. Like, oh, here's a thumb drive with all of our data, and then I just sat there like, I what what do I do with this? I've had a very storied career, so I've been very upfront in seeing all the different technologies that, you know, have been super essential and useful. And I'm super excited for what else is gonna come out there because I have been around for a very long time. Like, as a paralegal, I remember sitting in war rooms full of bankers boxes and, you know, printing out labels with Bates numbers and sticking them on and hoping none of them fell off to, you know, hey. Now you can code into a database and push a button or a few buttons and get Bates numbers on something.

So for me, legal project management is really just identifying what the case teams might need and kind of being on almost like a mind reader, which I hate saying that, but, you know, kind of being prepared and anticipating those potential needs that may arise. They might come at you and say, hey. So I have this, and here's a complaint, and we might have a production that needs to go out because it's, on a, you know, super fast docket.

So from there, it's my job or my team's job to kind of understand and extrapolate all that information within that, you know, two or three sentence email that we receive and really determine what are the tasks that could potentially come out of that request and be able to manage that project from start to finish. So what are the things, like I said, I was a very big fan of using Excel and keeping track of everything in there and using dates and putting in my time. And, obviously, now there are a lot of tools that you can use to kinda keep track of those tasks from start to finish, whether it's a collection or you received a production that needs to go into the workspace and, you know, all the way through, like, trial. Which is very helpful, I think, on that end for, you know, the key words of the data to have some sort of organizational method to ensure that we're getting what needs to get done for the case teams.

Yes. One hundred percent, I'm definitely having to be an evangelist, and that's really part of my marketing push internally, in twenty twenty four. And what I like to do is really talk to them and see what their needs are. Because at the end of the day, I'm not the one at the courthouse.

I'm not the one trying to present something to a judge or file a motion. I'm the one who's getting the information to in preparation of that, but I'm not the ones sitting there, you know, trying to get that all figured out in front of a judge or a jury or, you know, peers. So I really try to take the time to understand and get feedback from them. And my big thing with talking to the new attorneys as part of the onboarding process internally here at Dykema is to say, like, hey.

If there is a tool that you have used in the past that you've really liked or you've seen at a bar association meeting or you've sat in on a webinar, please let me know. It could be helpful to you on a transactional basis, or it could be helpful to somehow push out to the firm as a whole for everybody to use. So I'm really open to those conversations and really making the attorneys a part of that process because I feel sometimes that those decisions are made for them, and they they have the valuable insight that I, you know, wouldn't see firsthand.

I came into this situation. You know, the team was already here. I didn't wanna just start making changes. So I was really in an observational mode.

Right? And as people have worked with me in the different offices, after a project is done, I reach back out. I had something earlier this year where had a trial presentation that an attorney had requested help on. It was, you know, more administrative test, but after everything was done, I knew that they had went to court.

I followed up and said, hey. How did everything go? Turns out they won before they even had to present anything, so that was perfect in that scenario. Another time more recently, my new boss had conversations with some of the attorneys internally and got feedback on how we're doing as a team.

It was like an opportunity for me to intro reintroduce myself and ask, like, hey. Happy to sit down and talk about your feedback about the specific tool, you know, because I wanna make sure that I have that information. And then because I do have the opportunity to talk to vendors and to talk to the people making, you know, different tools, I give that information. Like, here is what my team needs.

Here's what this attorney needs, and here's what I heard. So I've tried to really keep those conversations going.

Sometimes if they're not easy conversations to have, but feedback is worthwhile.

If there is a secret, I have not figured that one out yet. But I just think it's keeping an open mind and, you know, keeping those conversations going. Right? This is not a one stop shop. Right? There's things in the industry that's that are gonna evolve, you know, based on what different needs are and based across different practice groups sometimes. So I think, you know, at least for me in the way that I operate, it's, you know, asking those questions and trying to figure out what works best for them, and, really, communication is key at the end of the day.

You know, that's a really like I was saying, that wasn't a really difficult one for me to answer only because there are obviously guidelines in place that attorneys are supposed to be following. I always think about the UPL that was drilled into my head in law school, the unauthorized practice of law for everybody else, not unfamiliar with the acronyms. I just think, you know, following those general rules and making sure we're thinking about those as considerations as we do adopt more technology. And I think that's what's one of the things that with generative AI and AI as a whole, people are kinda looking towards and trying to figure out currently, following the general rules would be my recommendation to the attorneys as they are kind of looking at implementing new technology.

Yeah.

I'm so glad you brought this up. I've talked about this with some of my peers at Legal Week, And I think the biggest thing is now a better understanding of what those items are versus, like, back in the day when we, you know, started using structured analytics or, you know, tar one point o, tar two point o, people were not excited about it unless you were a technologist or you were in this industry. Now generative AI as a topic, I think everybody's excited about it. Even my husband who is in sales texted me this morning about him using ChatGPT on something.

So I think it's more of a better progression in terms of adapting to that because it's something that's fun. Right? It's something that's very easy to use from a nonlegal perspective, and it's something that people are already using, like you said, but it might have been named something differently before. So I think that's where the excitement and motivation around, like, the adoption of rate now.

I think that's where it's coming from.

Internally, I do make it a point for myself to keep on top of all the industry, you know, tech that's coming out in the tools. I've seen some really great ones. I've seen ones that are like, okay. I know where the thought process was, but I in a practical application, it's probably not something my attorneys would use.

I think what's prohibiting people now is just cost. Right? And for me, I look at that and I look at technology as a whole.

Pricing will go down eventually. So where do I wanna be in that space? Right? Do I wanna be an early adopter and try to push it on my case teams and pay, like, a premium?

Or do I wanna wait? The tech gets better. The price goes down. And, you know, it's probably gonna be easier for somebody to use that's not super tech savvy.

So I'm more on leaning on that side versus while I would love to adopt it now internally, it's just not a good practical business use case for me at this point in time.

Thank you.

The last couple years, I've been very hesitant to take demos because I was still trying to figure out what I was gonna do here internally at Dykema. And they said year twenty twenty four, guys, I said, you know what? I'm gonna take the calls. I you just don't know what people are gonna show you, what they're gonna say, who might be a good business partner, maybe not at this point in time, but maybe in the future.

So I've been very open, unlike my normal self, to taking those calls, taking those demos. And, yes, there was a point in time in February where I was like, oh my goodness. Everybody's hitting me up for legal week. I will talk to you guys afterwards.

I'll see your tool.

Probably not a good fit for us now, but it's I think it's really important to take those demos, and that's what I've learned in this year of kind of trying to manage and stay on top of the different tools that are out there because there are a lot. And that's what I'm finding right now.

So, obviously, price is my number one consideration because that's something that I think every good business professional should be looking at. But I think, also, how easy is this to use? Right? When I think about what I do in my space in terms of technology, I love technology.

I'm open to it. I'm always playing with, like, the new latest app that my kids come home and, you know, my husband thinks I'm, you know, a little bit insane for doing that. But I also have to take the other side of it of, okay. My mom is in her eighties.

How would she be able to use this tool? So I think ease of use on that end and the explanation. Right? If it's a long training and you're you know, we talk about clicks.

Right? If you're clicking so many times just to get what you need, that is something that I know that I immediately know. And I think the other one of the other things that I look at is, is this a company that's looking to truly partner with me or they are just trying to sell. Right?

And in terms of a partnership, are they really asking and genuine about understanding what my case of teams might need? Right? We might have a, you know, less tech savvy attorney that doesn't understand certain things, and they might have a tool that would be helpful for, you know, whatever their needs are. But if they don't try to understand what I need and they just start selling me, I kind of shut down.

So that those are, like, the big three for me.

Absolutely. You bring up time entry, and I think that's one of the areas where it would be super helpful. I think just with billing guidelines the way they are and how elaborate they can be sitting on the law firm side, I think that's a good way. And I've actually talked internally to our accounting people.

They have said, yes. So the when we send off your bills, they are running through and scanning for specific words. So they're using AI in that sense of a way to reject bills, which I think is an amazing thing to do. Not for me.

I have a law firm side. I was trying to send bills out, but I think that's something amazing that way as long as we can adopt something similar where it would maybe, hey. This entry, this is the type of entry that would not be that would get flagged by, you know, an insurance company, and they would reject that bill. I mean, I think that it would be helpful in that sense.

And and you're right. I think in an administrative sense as well. I feel like I've had this conversation with somebody and beyond billing, but, of course, I cannot think about what other use case there that I had talked about, recently. But definitely, like, the billing entry management is would be a prime example of that.

So I think from when I'm partnering with somebody and I and I'm looking for what I might need, and it's really just communicating those needs. And those needs will evolve over time. And so just keeping in light with those, you know, those conversations, keeping those open conversations going. I do have a great network of people that I trust that are I call my so called trusted advisers that I reach out to, and I say, hey.

What are you guys doing? Who do you partner well with? What are some of the questions? So having those conversation with colleagues and peers in the industry, I think, is also important because they might have a different use case scenario than you do, but you never know what kind of idea you will grab from those conversations.

It is not just you. I one hundred percent agree that we, in the legal space, are moving much quicker than we have in the past. You'll still have some firms that are still slower to adopt. In terms of where we're going, I don't know.

I mean, I could not have imagined the chat GPT blowing up and generative AI being hot topics in the industry. I mean, it could change next year. And in terms of adoption, I'm not sure. I'm so interested to see who's gonna adopt what what tech is gonna change over the next year.

I think we are more open to adopting it. I think we need to make a little bit more progress. I think that'll be something interesting to observe over the next year or so.

Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure talking to you both.