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LegalWeek Interview: Brad Schaffel of Sullivan Cromwell

BDO's Legal Tech Talk · Season 1, Episode 8 · April 25, 2023 · 1,471-word transcript
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Host: Daniel Gold, BDO
Co-host: Jared Crafton, BDO
Guest: Brad Schaffel, Sullivan & Cromwell

About this episode

Recorded at Legalweek 2023, Daniel Gold and Jared Crafton talk with Brad Schaffel, senior manager of electronic discovery at Sullivan & Cromwell, who has attended the conference for close to thirty years. Brad recalls when Legalweek was LegalTech and much smaller, argues it is time to drop the e from e-discovery, describes the conference's return to its pre-pandemic energy, and explains what a veteran looks for in sessions.

Key takeaways

Full transcript

Transcript from BDO's published episode, edited for transcription errors. Speaker labels added by Gold Standard Leadership.

Show open

Welcome to BDO's Legal Tech Talk podcast, we're joined by judges and legal professionals to discuss emerging trends, regulatory updates, and the latest headlines. We'll provide tips to help your law firms and legal departments make the most out of legal tech.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jared Crafton, BDO's forensic technology practice leader. And I'm Daniel Gold, BDO's managing director of the enterprise eDiscovery services practice.

Let's get started with this episode's exciting topic.

Brad Schaffel

Go ahead and tell us who you are, where you work, what you do here. Great. Well, thank you for having me. My name is Brad Schaffel.

I a senior manager of electronic discovery and litigation support for Sullivan and Cromwell. I've been with the firm for almost five and a half years now. But you've been in Discovery for quite some time.

Yes. I have. In fact, I realized that this month, March is my thirtieth anniversary of working in the profession. That is something thirty years.

Daniel Gold

Thirty years? This is feel like, you know, sometimes they say, like, one year and your discovery is, like, seven years. Right? For Dog years or Dog years.

Brad Schaffel

Right. Sometimes -- Yeah. -- it definitely it definitely has had those moments. It's not always the easiest profession, which I think we know.

Jared Crafton

But obviously, I think it's a good one and a great one or I would not have been in it for for thirty years. So when you think about what you started off as thirty years ago, like, There was no such thing as eDiscovery. No. It was just we have discovery.

Brad Schaffel

Right. Alright. Please. You know, I'm in that camp. I'm definitely in that camp, and I ask for everyone's help.

Let's get rid of the e. Let's retire it. Let's retire it. There's just discovery. We're back to where we started.

There's a only discovery. The pendulum has has swifted back in the other direction. Absolutely. Right.

Daniel Gold

We are there. We're just we're just discovery. Right. Well, I challenge anyone to show us discovery projects that don't that are not electronic.

Brad Schaffel

Showing the client that does not have a computer and Why differentiate at this point? That's right. Exactly.

Jared Crafton

We what we should do is revert and say, if you've got paper, we call p discovery. Yep. Yeah.

Brad Schaffel

Be e before electronic is So how many legal weeks have you been to over the years? So you've been in the business for thirty. Thirty. I cannot recall off top of my head how long we've been doing used to be called legal tech, but did used to be called legal tax -- Right.

-- and I could not, for the life of me, tell you how many total I've been to. I know I've been to at least sixteen the last sixteen -- Mhmm. -- give or take, you know, with with pandemic and what have you. But I realized that during my my first job when I was a paralegal, and it was before Windows, we were in a dos based world, I attended legal tech then looking for a docketing software.

So Is that right? Yeah. I go back maybe not the full thirty years -- Yeah. -- but, you know, definitely almost.

Daniel Gold

So what was it like? I mean, how many people showed up to the one that you can recall being to? Because we're talking, like, there's a well over Oh. Those people that show you.

Brad Schaffel

No question. It was much much smaller. Right. And I feel then I work for a very small offer So it was, I think, a little bit different in that you attended to solve a problem or to educate yourself.

Now it's a little bit like homecoming weekend. That's right. It is. It is. It is.

Seeing a lot of old friends and new faces and still learning new things, but then it was really it was a tech show, you know, as I recall and you were going to purchase something or solve a problem because, you know, technology in the legal space was just starting to ramp up and pick up speed. It was right when Windows ninety five was hitting the industry and That's amazing. Yeah. So it was different.

It was very different. It was definitely nothing like what we see today.

Jared Crafton

Today is very interesting. So now is this the first one that you're at since the pandemic?

I did come last year. So this is my second since the pandemic. And what was that like when you were here last year? Was it Is it markedly different?

Brad Schaffel

Was it people were so relieved to see each other in person again? Or People were. People there were there was a sigh of relief. There was that collective release that people felt, but it was muted also because there was still a mask mandate.

This year, it does feel like it's very much back to the way it was pre pandemic.

It's party. It's a scene, man. It is. It is it's interesting. So I was not here last year, but this is my first one in four years. Mhmm. And I used to go every year.

Daniel Gold

So to me, this feels like it picked up where we left off Absolutely. So what are you looking to gain from a knowledge perspective? Right? So you come here.

You said, you know, start it off as a problem to solve. Are you looking at solve problem? Or what kind of knowledge do you wanna take out of this week?

Brad Schaffel

I'm a tough sell in that regard because I'm always looking for the knowledge that I don't already have.

And it sometimes becomes difficult. Those of us who work day to day in the industry could very easily, perhaps, be a panelist. You're the one sharing our knowledge with the audience. You know?

So who is presenting or speaking or has something that we're not experts on ourselves yet, that we are not running into, or who else is running into the challenges day to day that we're experiencing that I think to the early days of discovery and with support where we would do lunch and learns -- Right. -- as a community, as an industry and you know you sort of went around the table and what are you struggling with? And, you know, what is this group wise email as opposed to this outlook email? Gotcha.

Daniel Gold

You know, that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the like minds or someone who's maybe just a step ahead of me who can, you know, bring me along and tell me what I don't already know. So that's interesting. I look at knowledge -- Mhmm.

-- as the gift of giving.

If you accumulate all this knowledge while you're here what happens is if you keep it to yourself that I almost feel like that's very selfish. Right? Right? I feel like we can all take knowledge that we learn and then pass it on to other people and we can make other people better. Right. So my question to you is so you learn what you just described.

Brad Schaffel

What's your plan to be able to give the gift of knowledge to other people when you leave here at legal week? Well, my role in my career as, you know, as a manager as somebody who leads other professionals is to share that knowledge. I mean, that in a way that's my only responsibility, my only role. You know, it's no longer about me, and you know, it's about the next generation of our industry.

In our community and sharing what we know with them. So I'll take what I learned and bring it back to the firm or if I'm, you know, any of my networking groups that maybe I'll be speaking with, I will share it freely then and there because I think as an industry, we are better for it when we when we do share what we know. Hopefully, then someone else that I'm speaking with will share what they know. And fill in any gaps in my knowledge that I don't already have or cover those things I don't know that I'm missing.

Daniel Gold

It's a good way to leave it. Brad, thank you so much for stopping by the Podcast Studio. Thank you so much for having me. This was great.

Show close

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Until next time, this has been another episode of BDO's Legal Tech Talk.

Daniel Gold
About your host

Daniel Gold is an attorney and a Principal at BDO USA, where he leads eDiscovery managed services. He hosts BDO's Legal Tech Talk, co-hosts the NeLI Pod and founded Gold Standard Leadership.

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