Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Legal Technology

Thank you, Dan. Happy New Year. Thank you. And happy New Year to you as well.

Thank you very much.

Right. I like to take a step back if I if I may then because when we're talking about diversity, to me, diversity, it's reality.

Right? And what I mean by that is you know, groups of various races, ethnicity, gender gender identity, gender expression, as well as physical disabilities.

But then again, diversity can also include persons from different income and social backgrounds, as well as from geographical locations and professional experiences.

Now when we move to equity and inclusion, that's a choice.

That requires intentionality.

So how would I view inclusion, that's when we take actions to recognize appreciate value, respect, and understand the differences of those in the aforementioned groups, and to leverage those differences to enhance the particular workplace or organization and include them into the particular framework and provide equal access for growth and opportunity.

And really, it's about creating a climate of belonging.

And so when we talk about equity, obviously, we wanna make sure that the processes and the programs are fair. They're impartial, providing equal outcomes for every individual.

And, certainly, when we do this, what happens?

More trust, more commitment, better retention, and we can talk more about those things. But that's what these three things mean to me.

Right? That's it. That's it.

You know, first, I should also say hello and happy new year to Jared. I said that before the recording, but he's here too. Let me say that. It's true.

Because I think that twenty twenty changed everything.

The reason why I say that is because you had the COVID pandemics Unfortunately, we are still living in the pandemics.

But when we were really locked down, Unfortunately, we meaning, not just here in New York, but the entire nation, the entire globe witness the murder of George Floyd. And to me, that really changed everything.

And so when you look at the intersection between COVID nineteen, That really shined a light on the systemic inequities in the health care system.

And the lack of access to vital resources.

Also, including technology, and I know that we'll get into that.

But when you cup with those things together, I think it created an awakening throughout the globe. You had several persons, not just within the legal community, but throughout, wanting to become more involved with civic engagement.

I particularly liked the young people.

You know, the gen z's, the millennials.

They really got involved.

So did lawyers.

Lawyers and judges the leaders of the justice.

System. So I think it really began there.

Certainly, Zoom, Microsoft Teams, this helps. Right? Because when we're doing virtual meetings, we got to see people's homes.

Sometimes you heard children in the background. They ran across the screen, dogs barking. So it made us more accessible, more human.

Flexibility.

So Dan, I think you gotta put the point at twenty twenty. But even before that, I would say, like, maybe twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and I just think it was just a change in society.

You had more discussions about corporations holding law firms accountable.

The idea of metrics.

Certainly, we can even broaden the scope.

And I give credit to the federal judiciary.

They were the leaders when we talk about creating these standing rules, right, as far as giving women younger attorneys, opportunities to speak in court.

Certainly, when I was a trial judge, part of my rules, I encourage that other judges.

So I think that It started twenty seventeen and onward, but twenty twenty was the linchpin.

It was the linchpin because Bottom line is we can never go back to the way things were.

And, you know, I certainly appreciated that, you know, persons in the white community recognize the importance of allyship.

And I know I've been the beneficiary of that.

And the bottom line is that, for me, that's really where it starts.

We have so much more work to do and I commend you, Dan, and Jeff even having me on and discussing this because Heart conversations must take place, but there's a way to do it with compassion, humility, and understandings.

Listening is key.

I'm gonna make a little joke.

You know, judges are not supposed to be biased. Right?

However, I am with one, two things. One is about my high school. We can talk about that offline.

But New York It's the best place to live. New York.

I know Dan Dan is laughing, but there are a lot of close seconds.

Like Chicago and Boston. A lot of close second. Not Kansas? Thank you for my hometown. And just so you know, we didn't talk about this. I did live in New York. Second seat.

But the thing is, I think it's so one to right, that New York is the first state that beginning in July of this year is gonna require attorneys to take at least one cybersecurity credit, you know, cybersecurity, privacy, data protection.

And, obviously, I'm sure more will come of this. We have to take at least one credit every two years, but the bottom line is that attorneys, you know, have ethical obligations. Right? The key thing is rule one point one, competence, right, that common eight To maintain the requisite knowledge and skill, a lawyer should keep abreast of changes in the law and its practice including the benefits and risks associated with, relevant technology.

And engage in continuing study and education, and comply with all the continuing legal education requirements to which the lawyer's subject.

The bottom line is there are new platforms each and every day.

Right?

The law cannot keep up with it. However, are we supposed to be experts? No. But to have some type of understanding because this is where the problem comes in. You know, certainly, there have been a number of cases, you know, talked about them at Relativity fast about sanctions being imposed. Why?

Because data hasn't been preserved, right, other areas where there's inadvertent disclosure.

And it's obvious because even in some of the cases, they talk about the lawyers not understanding the platform.

So I think that's the key thing you have to understand the platform. And if I may, I'm gonna give you an example. Right? Because here in New York, you know, the commercial division that deals with complex commercial cases, it's a rule, you know, with respect to the preliminary conference that, you know, counsel, they shall be sufficiently versed in matters relating to their client's technological systems to discuss competently all areas relating to electronic discovery.

And certainly, attorneys are permitted to bring a client representative or outside expert to assist in those discussions.

Then, see, this is where my bias comes in, and I'm admitting it. Right. Fair enough fair enough. Well, you are human.

Right? Yeah. You have established that. I'm human. At least I admit it. You know, listen.

You know, listen. The the bottom line is bad.

These things are happening because not enough attorneys are taking advantage of the resources that are out there to learn.

We are now in a situation where there are hybrid workplaces.

Some people work, what, two or three times a week from home, so there are certain challenges there. You know? Are you safeguarding your network?

Do you have things in place? Right?

And I think it's a start. And to me, Dan, I think that, yes, New York is setting this the standard.

Go stand it, at least having it.

You know, I'm gonna answer it this way, Dan.

I really don't think that we have a choice, because technology really is here to stay. And as I indicated before, about the new platforms being created each and every day, now, more sophisticated platforms.

So I don't think we really have a choice than in this.

If attorneys are going to really provide a true representation.

Okay?

This is an area that must be addressed as it relates to being comfortable being familiar with technology. And I know that there is some pushback you know, to say, oh, you know, I'm I'm not tech savvy.

I don't think that that's what we're talking about.

But to have basic knowledge.

It's a lot of fun if you haven't played with it yet. I have not. I have enough on my plate, Jared. Listen.

I'm constantly reading It's supposed to take things off of your plate though, I think.

But you know, the thing is, you know, when we talk about, for example, in federal data, right, how are you going to preserve that, safeguard it, And I think that's what's gonna be really key going forward about safeguarding material, data protection, and, you know, this may be dicey, but then do you really wanna use certain platforms?

That's a business decision that I think, you know, could be discussed with counsel whether there's another type of mechanism for you to communicate. Or if you are, you have to understand how you're gonna safeguard it.

I'll put it in as that way. Only because I'm an appellate judge, I really want to be careful how I phrase certain things, Jared, if that if that makes sense. I don't wanna give like an advisory opinion.

But I will say this and, you know, this goes back to the knowledge, right, about if you're gonna use something, you gotta know the benefits and the risks.

And and I think that this is where counsel or the law firm, they they get involved for certain business decisions about how things should be monitored and used.

I don't know why, but I talk about ad nauseam. My hope is through education, we all become better versions of ourselves as lawyers. Right? I truly I truly believe that.

Is that a number? Not at all. Not at all. So, you know, listen. It's about not only supervising the attorneys who are under you, but, you know, the vendors, any third parties.

You have to do your due diligence have to make sure that they have the appropriate wherewithal. Number one, to perform the services and to oversee that. So this is constant. It's not just for the attorney, personally, but their staff legal, non legal, the tech staff, all of the above.

Since you brought up STEM, I mean, I do have a few statistics, you know, from the PO report. You know, women make up a quarter or or fewer of workers in computing and engineering. Right? Certainly women are overrepresented in the health related jobs.

Hispanic workers make up about eight percent of STEM workers.

Black workers make up about nine percent of STEM workers.

Unfortunately, with no change since twenty sixteen.

But there are mentorship groups and other groups aimed at amplifying diversity and inclusion efforts, you know, within the eDiscovery field.

One is, you know, women in eDiscovery.

You know, another one, and I know you know about that. The Electronic Discovery Institute.

So things are being done.

In the legal profession.

Example is this podcast what we're doing.

Think about it.

What this podcast have taken place? I don't know. Seven eight years ago, I don't know. You you have to answer that. Right? But to me, what we're doing is positive. That that shows light.

And as I said, many of the barred associations, judicial associations, they are addressing this. When you read the various legal periodicals and blogs, they are discussing this, as I said before.

Conversations about metrics, and that's key because the bottom line is the numbers don't lie.

Right? Numbers don't lie. So with the numbers, that's when people can put their money where their mouth is. You can see, okay, let's measure, you know, who's getting the promotions, who's getting the assignment. You know, how are we moving so and so off the ladder?

Those are metrics. That can be measured. And then if you see an issue where there's an area of improvement, You can tweak it.

And then the metrics, you know, can address it accordingly. So to me, I think that's where the focus should be as well, creating these metrics to measure success.

As well as areas for improvement.

Because Dan you know, as you said, you know, listen.

Don't take my word for it. I mean, there are studies. Right?

Increased profitability.

A more productive workplace, certainly, greater retention rates.

Certainly better results. You know, you have innovative thinking.

Increase critical thinking.

Certainly, there's an there's an increase with clientele.

Because now you have more exposure.

And the bottom line is that you're being introduced to new audiences, that you wouldn't have the benefit of knowing before. So it's all of these things. So interesting. If you think about everything you said just now, grit or retention, productivity, better results, innovative and critical thinking, increased clientele, all of that leads to the very first thing you said, which is increased profitability.

Right? So it's amazing just by choosing to be a better human, is really what this comes down to.

Right? We choose to be a better human, it makes a better place for us at work, and we're more comfortable at work.

Better results happen, increased profitability, etcetera.

Yeah. This whole thing, to me, it all boils down with competence. Right? Just knowing. Because that's where it all starts.

Right? But then when we talked about the supervision, Who are going to be the appropriate custodians, right, you know, of the ESI?

And how are you going to make sure that those persons are are competent?

Right? Because, you know, when we talk about and I'm I'm I'm going back and forth, right, with the sanctions, with their co obligations. Right? Because a lot of times, when we talk about the sanctions, right, was the person leaving competent right, to even conduct the proper search for the records.

Right? You're laughing, but it's true. Right?

Or, like, what's the policy? You know, when you're talking about all of these different platforms?

And then do you have the proper safeguards in place?

So I think that's where the focus has to be. You know, the more and more we rely on technology. Listen. Technology is our friend.

Right? I believe that it can really enhance access to justice.

You know, another conversation on a podcast is this digital divide and how do you close that? That's for another podcast. But right now, it's about how to make attorneys understand legal technology, so you can avoid the inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure. You can avoid destruction of records. I mean, that's really what it is. And then also security issues, you know, just to make sure that you have the proper safeguards. I mean, when I came to the court in twenty twenty, I had to upgrade my equipment here in my apartment.

You know? And, certainly, I do have a court issued laptop, and I just use it for court issued business.

It's been a pleasure. Thank you.